Julio Torres in 'Color Theories.' Photograph by Emilio Madrid/HBO For a brief off-Broadway run last fall, Julio Torres performed his first one-man show. A TED Talk masquerading as absurdist stand-up, Color Theories explained how Torres views the world — not by the colors he sees, but by the colors that represent everything from Real Housewives and step mothers to Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and war crimes. “It’s less of a thesis and more of a mission statement,” says Torres. “And the mission statement is to attempt to make sense of the world using color as a tool. So it is not so much analyzing colors as it is using colors to analyze.” Torres says he was not interested in extending the show. Fortunately, HBO captured the performance. And the hour-long results that premiere on the platform Friday are a mix of the cerebral and silly that audiences have come to expect from the Problemista filmmaker and former Saturday Night Live writer. Speaking during a recent episode of The Hollywood Reporter podcast I’m Having an Episode (Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple), Torres explained the one shade that’s coloring everything unpleasant about modern life, what you’re really communicating with a red car and why past collaborator Tilda Swinton is his “interdisciplinary twin flame.”
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Much of the hour is preoccupied with navy blue and the entities and systems in this world that you have assigned that color. Can you define navy blue for me and give me some examples?
Navy blue is the category I give to systems of law and order and bureaucracy and behaviors that masquerade as being purely logical but have hidden biases or agendas. For example, primary blue is, to me, the color of logic. Two plus two is four. That is a primary blue fact. Navy blue is what happens when you combine logic with black. Black is the color of the unknown. There is something hidden in black. Laws that masquerade as being common sense but have a hidden something are navy blue. For example, people with breasts not being able to show them in public is navy blue.
Because the breasts are the unknown?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. (Laughs.) Some people can be topless and some other people cannot be topless. That is a cultural bias masquerading as logic.
Gotcha. What is the most navy blue system that has interrupted with your own life recently?
Immigration is the biggest, in terms of my biography. A big part of the Julio pie chart has been historically dedicated to that, which is a prime example of navy blue in action because it’s a lot of laws that are masquerading as being something that makes common sense. But there’s a lot of hidden corners in there. Something else that came to mind recently is this idea of the type of ID that is being posed to being required for voting. The Republican phrasing is, “Well, it is logical that if you want to vote, you have to prove your identity.” It’s phrased in a way that sounds perfectly logical. It sounds like, well, yeah, that makes sense. You have to prove that you are who you are in order to vote. Now, that is masquerading as blue because actually there are a lot of hurdles. You need like a birth certificate in order to get that ID. And how much does it cost to get a passport? Who has changed their name and has to reprove their identity? Women who have taken on the names of their partners. There is a lot of rigmarole there that is conveniently hidden when positing this as a common sense thing. That is navy blue.
The last time we spoke, right when Fantasmas came out, was when they were getting really alarmist about how we all needed to get a “REAL ID.” It’s as if the driver’s license we have is no longer real.
It’s not real. Everything you’ve known is a lie! All the phrasing is you need a REAL ID. If you don’t have one, you’re not real, right? So I’m like, whoa, I don’t have a REAL ID! Then, two seconds later, you look it up and see that, if you have a password, you don’t need it. That is already a real ID. So what is real?
Blue fascinates me. More than the other primary colors, there are so many versions of blue that are still just considered “blue.” It’s like the bit from The Devil Wears Prada.
I would argue that scene is one of the most famous color theories in cinema. On its face, it’s a monologue about the fashion industry. But it is really about how nuances really matter and how we think that paying attention to color is a sort of artsy fartsy, hoity-toity thing. In reality, we all do. If you don’t like the color, you’re not gonna buy it, right? It’s that simple. People tell me, “This [show] is so unusual. How do you think of this?” I argue that, no, we all do it. I am merely framing it.
You don’t drive, correct? I do not drive, no. I took two lessons and I thanked the instructor for her time.
OK, well, one would think that the most important thing to consider in buying a car is safety and durability. But you go on the lot, and they’re immediately like, “What color are you thinking?”
This is something that my friend Spike and I talk about a lot. Cars in particular, but also technology at large, the color choices have dwindled. If you think of the ’70s, the color choices you had! You could get a powder blue. You could get an orange. You could get a yellow. You could get a pink. Now, even a red car is a big anomaly. People are driving either black, gray, white or blue.
Julio Torres in Color Theories. Photograph by Emilio Madrid/HBO When I was growing up, and I don’t know if this is based in any fact at all, I was told red cars were more likely to be pulled over for speeding.
Because it’s sexy! It’s like, you’re a slut! (Laughs.) You’re a deranged slut. Where are you going? You’re on your way to wreck a marriage in that red car? That is what it signals: danger.
Can you think of something — an entity, a brand logo, anything that we encounter in everyday life — whose essence is the same color that it is physically presenting?
I think airports are at face value. Airports are navy blue and they present themselves as relentlessly navy blue.
We are speaking on Monday, March 23, and airports just got much more navy blue this morning…
I would say that airports are on the precipice of becoming red. (Laughs.) I would say that the inclusion of ICE is a variable that the navy blue that we had grown accustomed to wouldn’t have seen coming. Like, what would make this already unpleasant environment even spicier?
You put a lot of effort into this, but it was such a short run that you’re ultimately delivering an ephemeral experience. Yes, we’re talking about it because it was filmed and it’s going to be on HBO. But I assume that you could have done a month on Broadway, taken it to LA, toured it. Basically, you could have made more money from this. Why didn’t you?
This hypothesis was presented to me. In doing Color Theories, I fell in love with a tangible live production. I would love to learn more about that world. I feel very ignorant about the possibilities of live performance and theater at large. I am aching to do more of it. I will under no circumstances be physically on stage for it again. I’m just not wired that way. I was like, “I already did this.”
Was it the repetition?
The repetition, I could finetune in a writer, producer, director capacity. But the being the human on stage part? I am so not equipped to do this. I get like restless. It’s just not a strength of mine. I would love to do another short run. In Color Theories, you reference doing a show in the Hamptons. That seems like an unlikely locale for your comedy.
A booker asked if I wanted to do a show in the Hamptons and my gut reaction was an immediate bias that said no. But who am I to say no to opportunities? Especially those that take me to a place is famously pretty. So I did it. And everyone in the theater, working there, was absolute delight. But I wouldn’t say that is my world.
You were heckled there. Is the instant reaction to be put off your guard or wonder how this person even found themselves at your show? When something upsetting like that happens, I’m not quick on my feet. I’m not like one of the great stand-up comedians. We can make a long list of them who could ver quickly come back at it with something funny. I am curious first and, farther down the list, entertaining. So I’m just like, why is this person upset? Did I actually deserve being heckled? Am I upsetting? What is this person feeling? What are we to learn as a species from this? I might be wrong, but I think it is the only time in my career that I have been heckled. And it does not escape to me that it is in the wealthiest place with, supposedly, more expensive college degrees per capita. That just says so much.
Your comedy is very visual — colors, shapes — have you thought about doing something more audio-focused? Specials are the norm now, but a lot of comedians still release albums.
Yeah, I have thought about it. You’re saying this is awakening, like, that’s a fun little homework assignment. Not until I started working with Lia Rusli, who’s a brilliant composer who I worked with on Problemista and Fantasmas and Color Theories, did I start getting really excited about potentially doing an audio project. AKA: an album. It would be an interesting exercise to release something a la color theories only in an audio medium. I am such a voracious visual consumer. I am so stimulated by what I see that making something audio only feels a little foreign, but maybe down the line. Maybe short stories. Maybe little fables.
I read somewhere during the Problemista promotional era, but did Tilda Swinton suggest that you two conceptualize the theme park?
Yes. You know, her and I are similar in this way. in between takes, she’d be like, “Have you ever done a fragrance?” She’s my interdisciplinary twin flame in that she’s here doing a movie, fully in hair and makeup, and says “Let’s make a theme park!” Maybe we should go on an exploratory tour. We should go to Disney or something.
What color is an amusement park? Woof. I think that the intention of an amusement park is orange. The tangible reality of it, I’m not sure. I haven’t really experienced one. But it seems to me like a lot of lines and a lot of apps and lot of reservations. A lot of “did you pay more for this?” That is indicative of navy blue to me. It depends on how you’re experiencing the theme park, right? Are you a child being taken to the theme park or are you the parent organizing?
It’s tax season, and I think it’s safe to assume that taxes are navy blue.
Happy tax season! (Laughs.)
A throughline to your your body of work is an aversion to bureaucracy and capitalist expectations. So how does Julio Torres approach filing his taxes?
Lawfully. Respectfully. Dutifully. Unquestioning! With hopes that the money will someday be used for good.
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